{"id":15108,"date":"2017-09-09T23:08:36","date_gmt":"2017-09-09T22:08:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.fjala.info\/?p=15108"},"modified":"2017-10-26T23:07:01","modified_gmt":"2017-10-26T23:07:01","slug":"historiani-slloven-jozhe-pirjevec-tito-deshironte-qe-kosova-te-behet-republike","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jehonashqiptare.al\/fjala\/historiani-slloven-jozhe-pirjevec-tito-deshironte-qe-kosova-te-behet-republike\/","title":{"rendered":"Historiani slloven Jozhe Pirjevec: \u00abTito d\u00ebshironte q\u00eb Kosova t\u00eb b\u00ebhet Republik\u00eb\u00bb"},"content":{"rendered":"

– dialogplus<\/a><\/em>\u00a0– EKSKLUZIVE \u2013 Intervist\u00eb me historianin slloven Jozhe Pirjevec, autor i biografis\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb plot\u00eb p\u00ebr liderin komunist jugosllav Josip Broz Tito<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

Enver ROBELLI<\/strong>, Trieste<\/em>, 08.09.2016<\/em><\/p>\n

Ndon\u00ebse 76-vje\u00e7ar Jozhe Pirjevec \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb burr\u00eb sh\u00ebndetplot\u00eb, mendjekthjell\u00ebt, plot humor. Jeton n\u00eb Trieste, aty ku u lind si pjes\u00ebtar i pakic\u00ebs sllovene, n\u00eb nj\u00eb sht\u00ebpi t\u00eb vjet\u00ebr dhe madh\u00ebshtore, me nj\u00eb oborr si park. Pas Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore familja e tij iku nga Jugosllavia n\u00eb Territorin e Lir\u00eb t\u00eb Triestes. \u00abBabai im ishte antikomunist\u00bb, thot\u00eb Pirjevec n\u00eb dhom\u00ebn e tij t\u00eb pun\u00ebs, q\u00eb dominohet, natyrisht, nga librat.<\/p>\n

Pirjevec ka diplomuar p\u00ebr histori n\u00eb Universitetet e Triestes dhe Pisas n\u00eb Itali, ka vazhduar studimet n\u00eb Akademin\u00eb Diplomatike t\u00eb Vjen\u00ebs dhe ka doktoruar m\u00eb 1977 n\u00eb Lubjan\u00eb n\u00ebn mbik\u00ebqyrjen e historianit Fran Zwitter, i njohur si nj\u00ebri nga themeluesit e Shkoll\u00ebs s\u00eb Lubjan\u00ebs t\u00eb Historiografis\u00eb. Gjat\u00eb karrier\u00ebs s\u00eb tij Pirjevec ka qen\u00eb profesor i ftuar n\u00eb shum\u00eb Universitete amerikane dhe europiane. Dhe ka gjetur koh\u00eb t\u00eb udh\u00ebtoj\u00eb n\u00eb Indi, Uzbekistan dhe n\u00eb shkret\u00ebtir\u00ebn Gobi.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb fillim t\u00eb karrier\u00ebs s\u00eb tij shkencore Pirjevec u mor me raportet mes Italis\u00eb dhe sllav\u00ebve t\u00eb jugut gjat\u00eb Risorgimentos, l\u00ebvizjes politike dhe sociale italiane, e cila synonte unifikimin e Italis\u00eb. M\u00eb von\u00eb u thellua n\u00eb historin\u00eb ruse, pastaj iu p\u00ebrkushtua plot\u00ebsisht historis\u00eb s\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb dhe t\u00eb slloven\u00ebve n\u00eb Itali dhe \u2013 mbi t\u00eb gjitha \u2013 biografis\u00eb s\u00eb Josip Broz Titos, liderit q\u00eb themeloi Jugosllavin\u00eb e dyt\u00eb dhe u b\u00eb personalitet i respektuar i kampit komunist n\u00eb bot\u00eb. Biografia e Titos e shkruar prej tij s\u00eb fundi \u00ebsht\u00eb botuar n\u00eb Gjermani dhe ka marr\u00eb kritika shum\u00eb t\u00eb mira. M\u00eb par\u00eb libri, pas sllovenishtes, \u00ebsht\u00eb publikuar n\u00eb kroatisht, serbisht, italisht, s\u00eb shpejti pritet botimi n\u00eb anglisht dhe polonisht.<\/p>\n

P\u00ebr t\u00eb zhvilluar intervist\u00ebn Jozhe Pirjevec kishte zgjedhur nj\u00eb restorant lart mbi Trieste, me pamje mahnit\u00ebse mbi k\u00ebt\u00eb qytet. \u00abE shihni atje, n\u00eb horizont, atje duken Sllovenia dhe Kroacia\u00bb, thot\u00eb Pirjevec.<\/p>\n

Zoti Pirjevec, ju merreni me figur\u00ebn e Josip Broz Titos tashm\u00eb 40 vjet, keni hulumtuar n\u00eb shum\u00eb arkiva. \u00c7far\u00eb u ka fascinuar te personaliteti i tij n\u00eb ve\u00e7anti?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Guximi i tij. Fakti se ai ishte n\u00eb gjendje t\u2019i kund\u00ebrvihet Hitlerit dhe Musolinit, pastaj \u2013 edhe m\u00eb e rrezikshme \u2013 t\u00eb kund\u00ebrshtoj\u00eb Stalinin. Kjo ishte p\u00ebr mua shum\u00eb t\u00ebrheq\u00ebse si historian. Kam dashur t\u00eb kuptoj pak m\u00eb mir\u00eb se si ka ndodhur konfrontimi me Stalinin. Pastaj nisa t\u00eb hulumtoj\u00eb sidomos n\u00eb arkivat angleze dhe amerikane, menj\u00ebher\u00eb pasi u hap\u00ebn arkivat, pas 30 vitesh, pra m\u00eb 1979. Kam shkuar n\u00eb Lond\u00ebr, n\u00eb Washington, n\u00eb Arkivin e presidentit Truman n\u00eb Kansas, p\u00ebr t\u00eb par\u00eb se si e kan\u00eb p\u00ebrcjell\u00eb dhe kuptuar ata konfliktin mes Titos dhe Stalinit. P\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb shkrova nj\u00eb lib\u00ebr. P\u00ebr mua ky ishte fillimi i angazhimit tim n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb drejtim. K\u00ebshtu nisa t\u00eb merrem me historin\u00eb bashk\u00ebkohore t\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb.<\/p>\n

Por, n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb karrier\u00ebs suaj jeni marr\u00eb me tema t\u00eb tjera\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Po. M\u00eb ka interesuar raporti mes patriot\u00ebve italian\u00eb gjat\u00eb Risorgimentos, l\u00ebvizjes p\u00ebr bashkimin e Italis\u00eb, dhe intelektual\u00ebve t\u00eb sllav\u00ebve t\u00eb jugut. Mandej arrita n\u00eb p\u00ebrfundimin se historia bashk\u00ebkohore \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb m\u00eb interesante.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb librin tuaj Tito p\u00ebrshkruhet si partizan dhe revolucionar, president i shtetit jugosllav, diktator dhe arkitekt i modelit alternativ socialist. Cili p\u00ebrshkrim i p\u00ebrshtatet m\u00eb s\u00eb miri Titos?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: N\u00eb fakt, t\u00eb gjitha. Por, \u00e7far\u00eb m\u00eb ka interesuar n\u00eb radh\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb te ai ka qen\u00eb, krahas rebelimit kund\u00ebr Hitlerit, Musolinit dhe Stalinit, p\u00ebrpjekja p\u00ebr t\u00eb gjetur nj\u00eb socializ\u00ebm me fytyr\u00eb njer\u00ebzore. Natyrisht Tito nuk ka qen\u00eb vet\u00eb n\u00eb gjendje t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, por ai ka lejuar q\u00eb t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt ta b\u00ebjn\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb, p\u00ebr shembull Edvard Kardeli, pjes\u00ebrisht Milovan Gjilasi, Dushan Bilangjiqi. Tito i ka p\u00ebrkrahur ata q\u00eb t\u00eb zhvillojn\u00eb k\u00ebto ide, i ka integruar. Ekzistojn\u00eb dy zhvillime paralele: nga nj\u00ebra an\u00eb k\u00ebrkimi i nj\u00eb socializmi alternativ, n\u00eb an\u00ebn tjet\u00ebr zbulimi i Bot\u00ebs s\u00eb Tret\u00eb dhe angazhimi q\u00eb k\u00ebta popuj q\u00eb me shekuj kishin vuajtur nga kolonializmi kan\u00eb t\u00eb drejt\u00eb t\u00eb \u00e7lirohen.<\/p>\n

Tito b\u00ebri di\u00e7ka q\u00eb deri n\u00eb koh\u00ebn e tij nuk e b\u00ebri asnj\u00eb politikan tjet\u00ebr europian: ai shkoi n\u00eb Afrik\u00eb, n\u00eb Azi dhe n\u00eb bot\u00ebn arabe si bashk\u00ebbisedues i barabart\u00eb. P\u00ebr k\u00ebta njer\u00ebz, p\u00ebr kryeministrin e Indis\u00eb, Nehru, p\u00ebr presidentin e Egjiptit, Naserin, p\u00ebr politikan\u00ebt afrikan\u00eb kjo ishte mbres\u00ebl\u00ebn\u00ebse. Ata e shihnin Titon si udh\u00ebheq\u00ebs t\u00eb tyre, nj\u00eb figur\u00eb n\u00eb rolin e babait, sepse Tito i pranonte ata t\u00eb till\u00eb si\u00e7 ishin, i trajtonte me respekt. Kjo ishte di\u00e7ka krejt\u00ebsisht e re n\u00eb historin\u00eb bot\u00ebrore, me \u00e7\u2019rast takoheshin kulturat, religjionet dhe traditat e ndryshme politike. Tito ishte n\u00eb gjendje ta b\u00ebnte k\u00ebt\u00eb, sepse kishte p\u00ebrvoj\u00eb nga Jugosllavia, ku ishte nj\u00eb lloj moderatori. Jugosllavia ishte si shtet aq i nd\u00ebrlikuar me shum\u00eb nacionalitete, fe, tradita, saq\u00eb duhej gjetur nj\u00eb model i bashk\u00ebjetes\u00ebs. Mbase Tito ishte figura e duhur p\u00ebr nj\u00eb gj\u00eb t\u00eb till\u00eb, sepse ne sllav\u00ebt e jugut nuk e njihnim sundimin kolonialist, kuptohet me p\u00ebrjashtim t\u00eb Serbis\u00eb n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb. \u00cbsht\u00eb interesante t\u00eb theksohet se p\u00ebrkrah\u00ebsit e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb t\u00eb hapjes s\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb ndaj Bot\u00ebs s\u00eb Tret\u00eb ishin slloven\u00ebt.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb mosh\u00ebn 21-vje\u00e7are Tito ishte nj\u00ebri prej n\u00ebnoficer\u00ebve m\u00eb t\u00eb rinj t\u00eb Perandoris\u00eb Austro-Hungareze. Si u b\u00eb ai pastaj komunist i flakt\u00eb, si t\u00eb thuash revolucionar me profesion?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Besoj se n\u00eb vitet \u201920 dhe \u201930 ishte shum\u00eb leht\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebheshe komunist i flakt\u00eb. Sidomos t\u00eb rinjt\u00eb jetonin n\u00eb nj\u00eb shtet aq t\u00eb padrejt\u00eb, si\u00e7 ishte Mbret\u00ebria e serb\u00ebve, kroat\u00ebve dhe slloven\u00ebve, ata nuk kishin asnj\u00eb perspektiv\u00eb, andaj u inspiruan nga Revolucioni sovjetik i tetorit t\u00eb vitit 1917 dhe ideja p\u00ebr nj\u00eb shoq\u00ebri tjet\u00ebr, n\u00eb t\u00eb cil\u00ebn t\u00eb gjith\u00eb jan\u00eb t\u00eb barabart\u00eb. A nuk do t\u00eb b\u00ebheshit edhe ju komunist n\u00eb rrethana t\u00eb tilla? Besoj se un\u00eb n\u00eb at\u00eb koh\u00eb do t\u00eb b\u00ebhesha komunist. Nuk jam komunist, sepse e kam par\u00eb se \u00e7far\u00eb ka ndodhur n\u00ebn komuniz\u00ebm, se ku mund t\u00eb shkonte komunizmi. Tito e p\u00ebrqafoi ideologjin\u00eb komuniste n\u00eb kushtet shoq\u00ebrore t\u00eb viteve \u201920 dhe \u201930. \u00c7far\u00eb nuk ua fali Titos dhe shok\u00ebve t\u00eb tij \u00ebsht\u00eb fakti se ata, ndon\u00ebse gati t\u00eb gjith\u00eb kan\u00eb qen\u00eb n\u00eb Mosk\u00eb, nuk m\u00ebsuan nga p\u00ebrvoja negative sovjetike, ata kan\u00eb par\u00eb se \u00e7far\u00eb ka b\u00ebr\u00eb regjimi stalinist, \u00e7far\u00eb terrori ka ushtruar. Ata e kan\u00eb pranuar k\u00ebt\u00eb n\u00eb em\u00ebr t\u00eb fes\u00eb\u2026<\/p>\n

N\u00eb em\u00ebr t\u00eb fes\u00eb?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Po, sepse ata, p\u00ebr fat t\u00eb keq, e shihnin marksizmin si fe. Ky ishte gabimi m\u00eb i madh i tyre. Dhe kjo ka qen\u00eb arsyeja e d\u00ebshtimit t\u00eb tyre.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb librin tuaj ju shkruani se Tito ishte mjesht\u00ebr i konspiracionit. Ai ka p\u00ebrdorur rreth 30 pseudonime. Ka shum\u00eb spekulime p\u00ebr prejardhjen e tij. N\u00eb librin e tij \u00abThe Story from Inside\u00bb Milova Gjilas shkruan se Tito i kishte th\u00ebn\u00eb atij se paraardh\u00ebsit e tij jan\u00eb nga fisi Ku\u00e7i n\u00eb Mal t\u00eb Zi, nj\u00eb fis me nj\u00eb deg\u00eb shqiptare dhe nj\u00eb malazeze.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Me gjas\u00eb paraardh\u00ebsit e tij kan\u00eb ardhur nga trevat lindore t\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb n\u00eb Kroaci, por kjo, sipas mendimit tim, nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb aq e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme. Kam nj\u00eb d\u00ebshmi se familja e Titos rrjedh nga Trentino, nj\u00eb krahin\u00eb n\u00eb veri t\u00eb Italis\u00eb. N\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb rajon \u00ebsht\u00eb i njohur mbiemri Broz. E sigurt \u00ebsht\u00eb: ai u lind n\u00eb Kumrovec, n\u00ebna e tij ishte sllovene, babai i tij ishte nj\u00eb pijanec, prej t\u00eb cilit Tito kishte frik\u00eb. Tito \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb p\u00ebrzierje e dy realiteteve: sllovene dhe kroate. Por, duhet th\u00ebn\u00eb se realiteti kroat \u00ebsht\u00eb m\u00eb i r\u00ebnd\u00ebsish\u00ebm.<\/p>\n

Q\u00eb nga vdekja e Titos kan\u00eb kaluar 35 vjet. Megjithat\u00eb, njer\u00ebzit nga Sllovenia n\u00eb Maqedoni interesohen p\u00ebr t\u00eb. Si e shpjegoni suksesin e madh t\u00eb librit tuaj?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: N\u00eb ish-Jugosllavi Tito ende \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb i njohur dhe i popullarizuar. Sidomos gjeneratave t\u00eb vjetra u kujtohet rinia si koha m\u00eb e mir\u00eb e jet\u00ebs s\u00eb tyre. Dhe duhet th\u00ebn\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn: vitet \u201970 n\u00eb Jugosllavi kan\u00eb qen\u00eb shum\u00eb t\u00eb pranueshme, vendi ishte i fundosur n\u00eb borxhe, por njer\u00ebzit kishin para. Ende m\u00eb kujtohet se t\u00eb gjith\u00eb koleg\u00ebt e mi n\u00eb Universitetin e Lubjan\u00ebs at\u00ebbot\u00eb pat\u00ebn nd\u00ebrtuar sht\u00ebpi pushimi, vikendicat e famshme, nd\u00ebrsa un\u00eb si profesor n\u00eb Itali nuk kam pasur nj\u00eb mund\u00ebsi t\u00eb till\u00eb. Njer\u00ebzit kishin mund\u00ebsi t\u00eb arsimoheshin, t\u00eb b\u00ebnin karrier\u00eb, t\u00eb zhvilloheshin n\u00eb kuptimin social n\u00eb krahasim me vitet e m\u00ebvonshme. P\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb arsye Tito ende \u00ebsht\u00eb relativisht i popullarizuar, por po ashtu \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb se njer\u00ebzve u duhen prij\u00ebs, mbret\u00ebr, bajraktar\u00eb. Kjo sa i p\u00ebrket Jugosllavis\u00eb. N\u00eb vendet e tjera ku \u00ebsht\u00eb botuar libri interesimi p\u00ebr Titon buron prej motiveve t\u00eb ndryshme. P\u00ebr shembull n\u00eb Italin\u00eb veriore ende ekziston nj\u00eb tradit\u00eb e fuqishme partizane. N\u00eb Gjermani Tito njihet ende p\u00ebr shkak se aq shum\u00eb ushtar\u00eb gjerman\u00eb kan\u00eb luftuar n\u00eb Jugosllavi \u2013 kund\u00ebr Titos.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb Jugosllavi Tito perceptohej para s\u00eb gjithash si hero i luft\u00ebs kund\u00ebr gjerman\u00ebve. Por, n\u00eb D\u00ebrvar t\u00eb Bosnj\u00ebs ai kishte menduar t\u2019u dor\u00ebzohej nazist\u00ebve.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Aty Tito \u00ebsht\u00eb gjendur n\u00eb nj\u00eb situat\u00eb t\u00eb pamundshme rrethimi. Por, si shum\u00eb figura t\u00eb tipit t\u00eb tij edhe Tito gjat\u00eb karrier\u00ebs ka pasur shum\u00eb fat, ta z\u00ebm\u00eb ai ka shp\u00ebtuar n\u00eb vitet \u201930 n\u00eb Mosk\u00eb. 90 p\u00ebr qind e jugosllav\u00ebve q\u00eb at\u00ebbot\u00eb ishin n\u00eb Mosk\u00eb jan\u00eb vrar\u00eb, burgosur, internuar n\u00eb Siberi nga NKVD, Komisariati Popullor i Pun\u00ebve t\u00eb Brendshme, si\u00e7 quhej Ministria e Brendshme e Bashkimit Sovjetik. Tito arriti ta shp\u00ebtoj\u00eb veten, madje u b\u00eb sekretar i p\u00ebrgjithsh\u00ebm i Partis\u00eb Komuniste t\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb. Gjat\u00eb Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore ai ka qen\u00eb shpesh n\u00eb rrezik.<\/p>\n

Si e shpjegoni ju k\u00ebt\u00eb shkatht\u00ebsi t\u00eb tij p\u00ebr t\u00eb shp\u00ebtuar nga rreziku?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Besoj se ishte shum\u00eb inteligjent. Shum\u00eb i kujdessh\u00ebm. N\u00eb f\u00ebmij\u00ebri ai jetoi n\u00eb kushte t\u00eb v\u00ebshtira ekonomike dhe q\u00eb at\u00ebher\u00eb zhvilloi instinktin e mbijetes\u00ebs, t\u00eb vet\u00ebmbrojtjes. Kjo kishte edhe efekte negative, sepse ai t\u00eb gjith\u00eb miqt\u00eb dhe bashk\u00ebpun\u00ebtor\u00ebt e tij i shihte si konkurrent\u00eb t\u00eb mundsh\u00ebm apo armiq. K\u00ebshtu ai i ka larguar nga pushteti t\u00eb gjith\u00eb miqt\u00eb e tij, duke filluar nga Gjillasi, Rankoviqi\u2026 Kardeli n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb vdiq n\u00eb shtratin e tij, por nuk vler\u00ebsohej nga Titoja, i cili n\u00eb fund ishte shum\u00eb i vetmuar.<\/p>\n

Ju e filloni librin tuaj me nj\u00eb p\u00ebrmbledhje komentesh p\u00ebr syt\u00eb e Titos. \u00c7far\u00eb ka t\u00eb ve\u00e7ant\u00eb n\u00eb syt\u00eb e tij?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Kur i kam lexuar t\u00eb gjitha k\u00ebto dokumente mbi biografin\u00eb e tij kam v\u00ebrejtur se sa shpesh p\u00ebrmenden syt\u00eb tij prej miqve dhe armiqve. Andaj vendosa t\u00eb merrem edhe me k\u00ebt\u00eb pjes\u00eb, ta p\u00ebrshkruaj k\u00ebt\u00eb kapitull dhe t\u00eb tregoj se \u00e7far\u00eb personaliteti i fuqish\u00ebm ishte. Syt\u00eb e tij me gjas\u00eb ishin shum\u00eb fascinues, t\u00eb p\u00ebrzem\u00ebrt po aq sa edhe armiq\u00ebsor\u00eb. N\u00eb nj\u00eb moment, gjat\u00eb nj\u00eb takimi, Stalini i thot\u00eb Titos: \u00abP\u00ebrse i keni syt\u00eb si rr\u00ebqebull? Kjo s\u2019\u00ebsht\u00eb mir\u00eb. Me syt\u00eb tuaj duhet t\u00eb qeshni. Dhe pastaj ia futni thik\u00ebn n\u00eb shpin\u00eb!\u00bb Mendoj se ai dinte t\u00eb qeshte me syt\u00eb e tij. Ministri i Jasht\u00ebm amerikan Henry Kissinger thot\u00eb: \u00abFytyra e tij qesh, por syt\u00eb e tij jo\u00bb. Me nj\u00eb fjal\u00eb: ai kishte sy q\u00eb linin p\u00ebrshtypje.<\/p>\n

Ju keni shkruar se Tito nuk mund t\u00eb krahasohet me Stalinin si diktator. Por, pas Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore ai ekzekutoi dhe burgosi mij\u00ebra kund\u00ebrshtar\u00eb. Nga perspektiva e sotme a nuk duhet t\u00eb trajtohet si kriminel lufte?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Situat\u00ebn duhet par\u00eb n\u00eb kuad\u00ebr t\u00eb rrethanave t\u00eb pasluft\u00ebs. T\u00eb gjith\u00eb jan\u00eb hakmarr\u00eb \u2013 gjat\u00eb dhe pas luft\u00ebs. Churchilli e ka bombarduar Dresdenin, ndon\u00ebse nuk ishte e nevojshme. Ka bombarduar edhe shum\u00eb qytete gjermane, ku jan\u00eb vrar\u00eb mij\u00ebra civil\u00eb, gra, f\u00ebmij\u00eb. Trumani e ka b\u00ebr\u00eb shkrumb e hi Hiroshim\u00ebn dhe Nagasakin me bomba atomike. Nuk duhet t\u00eb harrojm\u00eb se si Eisenhoweri pas luft\u00ebs \u00ebsht\u00eb sjell\u00eb ndaj rob\u00ebrve gjerman\u00eb t\u00eb luft\u00ebs. Mij\u00ebra prej tyre kan\u00eb vdekur nga uria. N\u00eb Itali ka pasur krime t\u00eb tmerrshme, thuhet se njer\u00ebz t\u00eb gjall\u00eb jan\u00eb hedhur n\u00eb zjarr, pastaj n\u00eb Franc\u00eb, n\u00eb Norvegji. Si mund t\u00eb ishte ndryshe n\u00eb Jugosllavi? N\u00eb nj\u00eb vend, ku njer\u00ebzit kishin vuajtur aq shum\u00eb, ku nazist\u00ebt dhe fashist\u00ebt me bashk\u00ebpun\u00ebtor\u00ebt e tyre lokal\u00eb, sidomos ustash\u00ebt, por edhe t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt, kryen krime t\u00eb tmerrshme. N\u00eb nj\u00eb gjendje t\u00eb till\u00eb nuk mund t\u00eb merret me mend se nuk do t\u00eb kishte hakmarrje. K\u00ebt\u00eb e pranoi edhe Titoja.<\/p>\n

Megjithat\u00eb, pas Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb shum\u00eb shpejt ndodhi thyerja me Mosk\u00ebn. Ka spekulime t\u00eb ndryshme p\u00ebr arsyen e prishjes s\u00eb raporteve mes Jugosllavis\u00eb dhe Bashkimit Sovjetik, p\u00ebr shembull thuhet se Stalini k\u00ebrkonte q\u00eb Armata e Kuqe t\u00eb kontrolloj\u00eb disa porte n\u00eb Adriatik\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n

Prijevec: K\u00ebt\u00eb e kam gjetur n\u00eb arkivat amerikane. Kam nj\u00eb dokument p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb. Sovjetik\u00ebt d\u00ebshironin t\u2019i merrnin k\u00ebto porte si enklava n\u00eb Adriatik. Dhe k\u00ebt\u00eb e kan\u00eb k\u00ebrkuar deri n\u00eb vdekjen e Titos. Si president i Jugosllavis\u00eb Tito e kuptoi se n\u00ebse do t\u2019ua jepte k\u00ebto baza sovjetik\u00ebve, sovraniteti i tij merr fund, andaj p\u00ebrgjigjja e tij ishte negative. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb nd\u00ebr arsyet e konfliktit, por ballafaqimi ka filluar shum\u00eb m\u00eb her\u00ebt, n\u00eb vitin 1941, p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb q\u00ebndrimit ndaj luft\u00ebs. Stalini mendonte se kjo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb luft\u00eb ideologjike, ai nuk e pranonte tez\u00ebn e Hitlerit se b\u00ebhej fjal\u00eb p\u00ebr nj\u00eb luft\u00eb t\u00eb civilizimit europian kund\u00ebr bolshevizmit.<\/p>\n

Stalini thoshte se kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb luft\u00eb mes Gjermanis\u00eb naziste dhe Bashkimit Sovjetik, rrjedhimisht k\u00ebt\u00eb luft\u00eb ai e quante luft\u00eb atdhetare. Titos ky interpretim nuk i mjaftonte, sepse ai e dinte se jugosllav\u00ebt nuk mund t\u00eb binden p\u00ebr t\u00eb hyr\u00eb n\u00eb nj\u00eb luft\u00eb t\u00eb till\u00eb, ngase at\u00ebher\u00eb p\u00ebr jugosllav\u00ebt nuk ekzistonte nj\u00eb atdhe, Jugosllavia nuk ishte atdhe, pas shp\u00ebrb\u00ebrjes s\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb ekzistonte Sllovenia si atdhe, Kroacia, Serbia dhe k\u00ebshtu me radh\u00eb. P\u00ebr t\u2019i bashkuar k\u00ebta njer\u00ebz rreth ides\u00eb p\u00ebr t\u00eb luftuar nazist\u00ebt, duhej th\u00ebn\u00eb di\u00e7ka tjet\u00ebr: lufta nuk do t\u00eb zhvillohet vet\u00ebm p\u00ebr \u00e7lirim nga okupatori, por edhe p\u00ebr ndryshime sociale, p\u00ebr ndryshimin e modelit shtet\u00ebror. Kjo ishte nj\u00eb ide mesianike, q\u00eb sugjeronte se Jugosllavia e re do t\u00eb jet\u00eb m\u00eb e mir\u00eb se ajo e vjetra, mbret\u00ebrorja.<\/p>\n

Megjithat\u00eb, Tito nuk lejoi demokratizimin e partis\u00eb, shoq\u00ebris\u00eb dhe shtetit. A do t\u00eb ndodhte shp\u00ebrb\u00ebrja e p\u00ebrgjakshme e Jugosllavis\u00eb n\u00ebse Tito n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u201970 nuk do t\u2019i kishte hequr nga pushteti komunist\u00ebt liberal\u00eb n\u00eb Serbi, Kroaci, Slloveni?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Un\u00eb jam dashamir\u00ebs i madh i k\u00ebtyre liberal\u00ebve, sidomos atyre serb\u00eb. Ata ishin m\u00eb t\u00eb men\u00e7urit, m\u00eb t\u00eb guximshmit. Dhe k\u00ebtu do dalloja Latinka Peroviqin dhe Marko Nikeziqin. Liberal\u00ebt kroat\u00eb ishin n\u00ebn ndikimin e nacionalist\u00ebve. Slloven\u00ebt kan\u00eb qen\u00eb t\u00eb koncentruar tep\u00ebr n\u00eb republik\u00ebn e tyre dhe gati nuk e shihnin Jugosllavin\u00eb. Por, n\u00ebse k\u00ebta njer\u00ebz t\u00eb rinj dhe inteligjent\u00eb do t\u00eb kishin mbetur n\u00eb pushtet, besoj se do t\u00eb ishin n\u00eb gjendje t\u00eb shp\u00ebtonin Jugosllavin\u00eb nga gjakderdhja. Por, problemi ishte se sa m\u00eb shum\u00eb q\u00eb mplakej Tito aq m\u00eb shum\u00eb e p\u00eblqente pushtetin. Ekziston nj\u00eb episod nga fillimi i viteve \u201970, kur Tito tregon p\u00ebr takimin e tij me Churchillin n\u00eb Napoli n\u00eb vitin 1944. Kryeministri britanik i kishte th\u00ebn\u00eb komandantit t\u00eb partizan\u00ebve jugosllav\u00eb: \u00abN\u00eb fund gj\u00ebja m\u00eb e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme \u00ebsht\u00eb: pushteti, pushteti dhe s\u00ebrish pushteti\u00bb.<\/p>\n

A ishte kjo arsyeja q\u00eb Tito ishte skeptik ndaj Kushtetut\u00ebs s\u00eb vitit 1974, e cila rregulloi decentralizimin e m\u00ebtejm\u00eb t\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Kushtetuta e vitit 1974 \u00ebsht\u00eb kryesisht vep\u00ebr e politikanit komunist slloven, Edvard Kardel. Mes Kardelit dhe Titos ekziston nj\u00eb dallim i madh: n\u00eb fund t\u00eb jet\u00ebs Tito ishte agnostik, ai nuk besonte m\u00eb n\u00eb asgj\u00eb, as n\u00eb ideologjin\u00eb e tij, nd\u00ebrsa Kardeli ishte p\u00ebrher\u00eb besimtar, natyrisht besimtar i ideologjis\u00eb komuniste. Kushtetuta e vitit 1974 ishte p\u00ebrpjekja e tij e fundit p\u00ebr t\u00eb shp\u00ebtuar Jugosllavin\u00eb. K\u00ebt\u00eb e ka th\u00ebn\u00eb edhe vet\u00eb. Un\u00eb them q\u00eb Kardeli ishte socialisti i fundit utopist europian n\u00eb kuptim t\u00eb utopist\u00ebve francez\u00eb t\u00eb shekullit t\u00eb \u201919. Ai besonte se me k\u00ebt\u00eb Kushtetut\u00eb t\u00eb tij mund t\u00eb krijohet nj\u00eb demokraci e drejtp\u00ebrdrejt\u00eb.<\/p>\n

Ai besonte se demokracia e partive n\u00eb Per\u00ebndim \u00ebsht\u00eb vet\u00ebm nj\u00eb etap\u00eb e r\u00ebnd\u00ebsishme drejt demokracis\u00eb s\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb, sepse \u00e7lirimi i popujve do t\u00eb arrihej vet\u00ebm n\u00ebse njer\u00ebzit kan\u00eb mund\u00ebsi t\u00eb zgjedhin drejtp\u00ebrdrejt\u00eb dhe t\u00eb ken\u00eb ndikim n\u00eb zhvillimet politike dhe n\u00eb vendimet q\u00eb kan\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebjn\u00eb me jet\u00ebn e tyre. Meq\u00eb, sipas Kardelit, Lidhja e Komunist\u00ebve ishte pronare e s\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebs, ajo e kishte p\u00ebr obligim t\u00eb organizoj\u00eb nj\u00eb sistem t\u00eb demokracis\u00eb s\u00eb drejtp\u00ebrdrejt\u00eb dhe ta mbik\u00ebqyr\u00eb at\u00eb. N\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb synim asaj duhej t\u2019i ndihmonte edhe Armata Popullore e Jugosllavis\u00eb. Pron\u00ebsia mbi t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00ebn dhe roli i ushtris\u00eb qen\u00eb an\u00ebt negative t\u00eb k\u00ebsaj Kushtetute.<\/p>\n

T\u00eb flasim tani m\u00eb gjer\u00ebsisht p\u00ebr Kosov\u00ebn\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Po. Kam qen\u00eb nj\u00ebher\u00eb n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb, n\u00eb vitet \u201970, n\u00eb nj\u00eb konferenc\u00eb t\u00eb organizuar nga Akademia e Shkencave dhe Arteve t\u00eb Serbis\u00eb. M\u00eb kujtohet se pat\u00ebm q\u00ebndruar n\u00eb hotelin \u00abBozhur\u00bb. Kam respekt t\u00eb madh p\u00ebr shqiptar\u00ebt, t\u00eb cil\u00ebt kan\u00eb arritur t\u00eb mbijetojn\u00eb n\u00eb rrethanat e represionit serb.<\/p>\n

Gjat\u00eb Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore Partia Komuniste e Jugosllavis\u00eb premtoi se edhe shqiptar\u00ebt e Kosov\u00ebs do t\u00eb g\u00ebzojn\u00eb t\u00eb drejt\u00ebn e vet\u00ebvendosjes. P\u00ebrse u t\u00ebrhoq ky premtim?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: N\u00eb lidhje me k\u00ebt\u00eb duhet t\u00eb shohim se \u00e7far\u00eb ka th\u00ebn\u00eb vet\u00eb Tito. N\u00eb intervist\u00ebn e tij t\u00eb fundit m\u00eb 1978 me George W. Hoffman, nj\u00eb profesor amerikan me origjin\u00eb austriake, i pyetur se cili kishte qen\u00eb hapi m\u00eb i v\u00ebshtir\u00eb politik me t\u00eb cilin u ballafaqua, Tito u p\u00ebrgjigj: \u00abBindja e serb\u00ebve p\u00ebr t\u2019i pranuar krahinat autonome t\u00eb Kosov\u00ebs dhe Vojvodin\u00ebs\u00bb. Vet\u00eb Tito ishte i mendimit se Kosova duhet t\u00eb b\u00ebhet Republik\u00eb n\u00eb kuad\u00ebr t\u00eb Jugosllavis\u00eb, por \u2013 po e citoj Titon \u2013 \u00abkjo nuk ishte e mundshme, sepse serb\u00ebt k\u00ebt\u00eb nuk do ta kishin duruar\u00bb. Pra, Tito d\u00ebshironte q\u00eb Kosova t\u00eb b\u00ebhet Republik\u00eb. Tito ishte i bindur se gjendja n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb do t\u00eb shp\u00ebrthente. Q\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 1976 ai i tha gazetares Darja Janekoviq: \u00abAtje do t\u00eb shp\u00ebrthej\u00eb s\u00eb pari\u00bb. Shqiptar\u00ebt e Kosov\u00ebs ishin t\u00eb vendosur t\u00eb luftonin kund\u00ebr hegjemonizmit serb, k\u00ebshtu q\u00eb demonstratat e vitit 1981 me gjas\u00eb qen\u00eb t\u00eb pashmangshme. Q\u00eb nga mesi i viteve \u201970 Tito besonte se k\u00ebt\u00eb shp\u00ebrthim po e mb\u00ebshteste edhe Tirana me agjent\u00ebt e vet n\u00eb krahin\u00eb.<\/p>\n

Ka shum\u00eb supozime se kush ka q\u00ebndruar pas demonstratave t\u00eb vitit 1968 dhe 1981 n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb. N\u00eb qarqet komuniste jugosllave, si\u00e7 shkruani ju n\u00eb lib\u00ebr, jan\u00eb ngritur dyshime se n\u00eb trazira kan\u00eb qen\u00eb t\u00eb p\u00ebrzier edhe sovjetik\u00ebt. A keni hasur d\u00ebshmi p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: P\u00ebrzierja e sovjetik\u00ebve s\u2019mund t\u00eb p\u00ebrjashtohet kurr\u00eb. Por, arkivat e sh\u00ebrbimeve sekrete ruse jan\u00eb ende t\u00eb mbyllura. Kam par\u00eb shum\u00eb arkiva, mes tyre edhe t\u00eb Komintern\u00ebs, por pa i par\u00eb arkivat e sh\u00ebrbimeve t\u00eb inteligjenc\u00ebs ruse dhe sovjetike ne nuk do ta njohim historin\u00eb e plot\u00eb t\u00eb shekullit t\u00eb \u201920. Se kur do t\u00eb hapen k\u00ebto arkiva, nuk dihet, Kremlini \u00ebsht\u00eb si Vatikani, asgj\u00eb nuk mund t\u00eb parashikohet n\u00eb k\u00ebt\u00eb drejtim. Nj\u00eb gj\u00eb duhet ditur: p\u00ebr sovjetik\u00ebt Jugosllavia ka qen\u00eb hal\u00eb n\u00eb sy dhe p\u00ebrher\u00eb ka pasur p\u00ebrpjekje p\u00ebr destabilizim.<\/p>\n

P\u00ebrse?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Sepse Jugosllavia zhvilloi nj\u00eb lloj socializmi q\u00eb mohonte eksperimentin sovjetik. Sovjetik\u00ebt frik\u00ebsoheshin se modeli jugosllav i socializmit do t\u00eb gjente mb\u00ebshtet\u00ebs n\u00eb vendet e Paktit t\u00eb Varshav\u00ebs, n\u00eb Poloni, Hungari, \u00c7ekosllovaki, gjithkund. N\u00eb shtator t\u00eb vitit 1971 n\u00eb Washington u p\u00ebrpilua nj\u00eb skenar, i cili parashihte q\u00eb n\u00eb rast se Moska pushton Serbin\u00eb, Maqedonin\u00eb dhe Malin e Zi, at\u00ebher\u00eb SHBA-t\u00eb do t\u00eb k\u00ebrkonin nga Kombet e Bashkuara t\u00eb d\u00ebrgonin trupa t\u00eb armatosura paqeruajt\u00ebse n\u00eb Slloveni dhe Kroaci. N\u00eb dokument thuhet: \u00abK\u00ebt\u00eb aksion ato (Kombet e Bashkuara) duhet ta imponojn\u00eb me arsyetimin e qart\u00eb se SHBA dhe NATO, n\u00ebse nuk do t\u00eb ket\u00eb intervenim nga OKB, nuk do t\u00eb ken\u00eb zgjidhje tjet\u00ebr p\u00ebrve\u00e7 se t\u00eb sigurojn\u00eb pavar\u00ebsin\u00eb e kroat\u00ebve dhe slloven\u00ebve proper\u00ebndimor\u00eb. N\u00eb nj\u00eb rast t\u00eb till\u00eb (\u2026) ne do t\u00eb marshonim n\u00eb Republikat veriore\u00bb.<\/p>\n

P\u00ebr t\u2019i shp\u00ebtuar rrethimit sovjetik disa politikan\u00eb t\u00eb nivelit t\u00eb lart\u00eb n\u00eb Beograd mendonin se duhej sulmuar Shqip\u00ebria n\u00eb m\u00ebnyr\u00eb preventive p\u00ebr t\u00eb mbajtur shpin\u00ebn t\u00eb sigurt, sepse mendohej se Bashkimi Sovjetik do t\u00eb sulmonte edhe nga Shqip\u00ebria. Frika u shtua pas marshimit t\u00eb trupave sovjetike n\u00eb Afganistan n\u00eb vitin 1979. Student\u00ebt e Universitetit t\u00eb Zagrebit brohorisnin: \u00abDanas u Afganistanu, sutra u va\u0161em stanu!\u00bb (Sot n\u00eb Afganistan, nes\u00ebr n\u00eb banes\u00ebn t\u00ebnde). N\u00eb vitet \u201970 Jugosllavia u furnizua me arm\u00eb nga Washingtoni dhe n\u00eb vitin 1975 presidenti Gerald Ford vizitoi Beogradin dhe, mes tjerash, n\u00ebnshkroi nj\u00eb marr\u00ebveshje n\u00eb vler\u00eb prej 600 milion\u00eb dollar\u00eb p\u00ebr nd\u00ebrtimin e centralit b\u00ebrthamor K\u00ebrshko n\u00eb Slloveni. M\u00eb 1978 Tito vizitoi p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb tret\u00eb Washingtonin, ku u takua me presidentin e ri Jimmy Carter. Paraqitja e Titos e entuziazmoi aq shum\u00eb Zbigniew Brzezi\u0144skin, k\u00ebshilltarin p\u00ebr siguri komb\u00ebtare t\u00eb presidentit, saq\u00eb ai tha: \u00abBashk\u00eb me SHBA-t\u00eb dhe Bashkimin Sovjetik Jugosllavia \u00ebsht\u00eb protagonistja e vetme n\u00eb aren\u00ebn nd\u00ebrkomb\u00ebtare\u00bb.<\/p>\n

Ju shkruani edhe p\u00ebr nj\u00eb p\u00ebrpjekje p\u00ebr atentat kund\u00ebr Titos n\u00eb vitin 1975 n\u00eb Zagreb, t\u00eb cilin gjoja e kishin p\u00ebrgatitur kroat\u00ebt dhe shqiptar\u00ebt.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Me gjas\u00eb ky ishte tentimi i fundit. Tito ua kishte frik\u00ebn aktivist\u00ebve nacionalist\u00eb shqiptar\u00eb. N\u00eb shtator t\u00eb vitit 1975 shqiptar\u00ebt dhe ustash\u00ebt kishin p\u00ebrgatitur nj\u00eb atentat kund\u00ebr Titos. Sulmi do t\u00eb kryhej gjat\u00eb nj\u00eb panairi n\u00eb Zagreb, me \u00e7\u2019rast ishte parapar\u00eb q\u00eb Titos do t\u2019i dor\u00ebzohej Urdhri i Heroit t\u00eb Popullit. Kur sh\u00ebrbimet sekrete sovjetike i informuan jugosllav\u00ebt p\u00ebr planin e atentatit, protokolli i vizit\u00ebs u ndryshua n\u00eb \u00e7astin e fundit. N\u00eb fakt, bombat eksploduan, por prej tyre u thyen vet\u00ebm xhamat e nj\u00eb filiali t\u00eb \u00abZagreba\u010dka banka\u00bb.<\/p>\n

Si \u00ebsht\u00eb e mundur q\u00eb p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb ngjarje nuk m\u00ebsoi fare opinioni?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Sepse gazetat dhe televizionet jugosllave nuk njoftuan p\u00ebr ngjarjen. Kjo ishte nj\u00eb shenj\u00eb e qart\u00eb se regjimi ishte i shqet\u00ebsuar. Pushteti qendror n\u00eb Beograd frik\u00ebsohej se mund t\u00eb bashkoheshin grupe t\u00eb ndryshme n\u00eb emigracion dhe n\u00eb rast t\u00eb vdekjes s\u00eb Titos do t\u00eb sulmonin Jugosllavin\u00eb. N\u00eb nj\u00eb raport t\u00eb CIA thuhej se \u00abkuturisja e aksioneve t\u00eb fundit terroriste e ka shtyr\u00eb Beogradin t\u2019i dyfishoj\u00eb masat e siguris\u00eb n\u00eb vend dhe t\u2019i paralajm\u00ebroj\u00eb qeverit\u00eb e huaja, t\u00eb cilat kan\u00eb juridiksion gjyq\u00ebsor mbi terrorist\u00ebt potencial\u00eb\u00bb. Regjimi n\u00eb Beograd ishte i mendimit se Gjermania nuk po nd\u00ebrmerrte masa t\u00eb nevojshme kund\u00ebr agjitacionit t\u00eb emigrant\u00ebve politik\u00eb nga Jugosllavia dhe nuk po i ekstradonte tet\u00eb \u00abterrorist\u00eb jugosllav\u00eb\u00bb. Tito u revanshua n\u00eb vitin 1978, kur n\u00eb Jugosllavi ik\u00ebn kat\u00ebr an\u00ebtar\u00eb t\u00eb Fraksionit t\u00eb Armat\u00ebs s\u00eb Kuqe, nj\u00eb grup militant komunist gjerman. Organet jugosllave i arrestuan ata, por nuk i kthyen n\u00eb Gjermani, madje i lejuan pastaj t\u00eb ikin n\u00eb vendet arabe. Ka pasur gati 25 p\u00ebrpjekje p\u00ebr atentat kund\u00ebr Titos, por, si\u00e7 e thash\u00eb, ai e kishte fatin p\u00ebrher\u00eb n\u00eb an\u00ebn e tij.<\/p>\n

Ta z\u00ebm\u00eb se Tito n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u201970 do t\u00eb kishte th\u00ebn\u00eb se \u00abnuk jam m\u00eb i aft\u00eb p\u00ebr pun\u00eb dhe po e caktoj nj\u00eb pasardh\u00ebs\u00bb. Kush do t\u00eb ishte pasardh\u00ebsi m\u00eb i p\u00ebrshtatsh\u00ebm?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Ai i ka eliminuar t\u00eb gjith\u00eb pasardh\u00ebsit e tij potencial\u00eb. Mendoj se pasardh\u00ebs t\u00eb mir\u00eb do t\u00eb kishin qen\u00eb Latinka Peroviqi apo Marko Nikeziqi. Me dijen e tyre, me bot\u00ebkuptimin e tyre ata kan\u00eb qen\u00eb serb\u00eb jotipik. N\u00eb historin\u00eb e Serbis\u00eb q\u00eb nga shekulli i \u201918 ka dy l\u00ebvizje: nj\u00ebra \u00ebsht\u00eb liberale, proper\u00ebndimore dhe tjetra konservatore, proruse. L\u00ebvizja liberale p\u00ebrher\u00eb ka qen\u00eb pakic\u00eb, por n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u201970 befas, p\u00ebr her\u00eb t\u00eb par\u00eb, p\u00ebrfaq\u00ebsuesit e l\u00ebvizjes liberale erdh\u00ebn n\u00eb pushtet. Ata do t\u00eb kishin ndryshuar Jugosllavin\u00eb. P\u00ebr fat t\u00eb keq Tito nuk mund t\u2019i duronte, ai e dinte sa t\u00eb men\u00e7ur jan\u00eb, sa t\u00eb aft\u00eb, por p\u00ebr pushtetin e tij ata ishin tep\u00ebr t\u00eb rreziksh\u00ebm dhe p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb arsye i rr\u00ebzoi nga pushteti. Meq\u00eb po flasim p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb tem\u00eb, dua t\u00eb p\u00ebrmend edhe nj\u00eb njeri si pasardh\u00ebs t\u00eb mundsh\u00ebm: ai \u00ebsht\u00eb Ko\u00e7a Popoviq. Ai ishte pinjoll i nj\u00ebr\u00ebs prej familjeve m\u00eb t\u00eb pasura serbe. Babai i tij kishte vetur\u00ebn e par\u00eb n\u00eb Beograd. Ko\u00e7a Popoviq studioi filozofin\u00eb n\u00eb Sorbonne.<\/p>\n

Ka luftuar n\u00eb luft\u00ebn civile t\u00eb Spanj\u00ebs. N\u00eb Luft\u00ebn e Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore ishte komandant i Brigad\u00ebs s\u00eb Par\u00eb Proletare, e cila e ka shp\u00ebtuar edhe Titon m\u00eb 1943 gjat\u00eb operacionit nazist \u00abWeiss\u00bb. Deklarata e tij se shqiptar\u00ebt mund t\u00eb jen\u00eb shtetas jugosllav\u00eb, por jo rob\u00ebr t\u00eb serb\u00ebve, tregon se ishte vizionar. Pas luft\u00ebs ishte shef i Shtabit t\u00eb P\u00ebrgjithsh\u00ebm t\u00eb Armat\u00ebs jugosllave dhe pastaj minist\u00ebr i Jasht\u00ebm i Jugosllavis\u00eb. N\u00eb aspektin intelektual ai q\u00ebndronte absolutisht mbi t\u00eb tjer\u00ebt, por ishte mjaft arrogant me sjelljet e tij. P\u00ebr shembull gjat\u00eb pritjeve ai m\u00ebrzitej aq shum\u00eb, saq\u00eb shkonte te shofer\u00ebt dhe bisedonte me ta. Ai ishte nj\u00eb njeri i elit\u00ebs serbe. N\u00eb arkivat angleze ka disa supozime se n\u00eb vitet \u201970 ka b\u00ebr\u00eb p\u00ebrpjekje p\u00ebr pu\u00e7 kund\u00ebr Titos. P\u00ebr fat t\u00eb keq dokumentet jan\u00eb t\u00eb censuruara ende, por kur e ke t\u00eb qart\u00eb situat\u00ebn e at\u00ebhershme, at\u00ebher\u00eb krijohet kjo p\u00ebrshtypje. Fal\u00eb aft\u00ebsive t\u00eb tij intelektuale ai do t\u00eb kishte qen\u00eb n\u00eb gjendje t\u2019i printe Jugosllavis\u00eb.<\/p>\n

Pak para se t\u00eb vdiste n\u00eb vitin 1992 Ko\u00e7a Popoviq e kishte par\u00eb shp\u00ebrthimin e nacionalizmit serb. Ai kishte shkruar: \u00abBashibozuk\u00ebt, fund\u00ebrrinat dhe plehu jan\u00eb ngritur n\u00eb k\u00ebmb\u00eb p\u00ebr ta ringjallur Mbret\u00ebrin\u00eb e Car Dushanit. Serb\u00ebt jan\u00eb vet\u00ebm kund\u00ebr atij q\u00eb do t\u00eb d\u00ebshironte t\u2019i b\u00ebnte pak m\u00eb t\u00eb men\u00e7ur, nd\u00ebrsa me entuziaz\u00ebm i brohorasin \u00e7dokujt q\u00eb i b\u00ebn edhe m\u00eb budallenj, m\u00eb t\u00eb prapambetur dhe m\u00eb fatkeq. \u00cbsht\u00eb p\u00ebr keqardhje q\u00eb serb\u00ebt n\u00eb kuptimin civilizues dhe kulturor kan\u00eb mbetur n\u00eb nivelin n\u00eb t\u00eb cilin kan\u00eb qen\u00eb para s\u00eb paku 100 viteve. Ata nuk jan\u00eb n\u00eb konflikt me bot\u00ebn, por me vetveten, duke iu kthyer shajka\u00e7\u00ebs (kapel\u00ebs tradicionale serbe, v.j.) dhe opingave, prej t\u00eb cilave mezi kan\u00eb dal\u00eb. Kam qen\u00eb dhe mbetur serb, por jo bullafiq i s\u00ebmur\u00eb dhe srbenda (fjal\u00eb pezhorative p\u00ebr nacionalist\u00ebt e pagdhendur serb\u00eb). T\u00eb till\u00ebt e kan\u00eb tradhtuar popullin serb dhe e kan\u00eb turp\u00ebruar dhe ia kan\u00eb njollosur historin\u00eb e famshme\u00bb.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Pik\u00ebrisht kjo deklarat\u00eb flet p\u00ebr aft\u00ebsit\u00eb e tij intelektuale, t\u00eb cilat i p\u00ebrmenda.<\/p>\n

E kund\u00ebrta e Ko\u00e7a Popoviqit duket t\u00eb ket\u00eb qen\u00eb Aleksandar Rankoviqi, ministri fam\u00ebkeq i Pun\u00ebve t\u00eb Brendshme. A e hoqi Tito at\u00eb nga pushteti, sepse frik\u00ebsohej se ai do t\u00eb organizonte grusht shteti?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Nuk jam i sigurt n\u00ebse Rankoviqi d\u00ebshironte t\u00eb p\u00ebrgatiste nj\u00eb pu\u00e7. Ai ishte besnik i Titos. Por, ai synonte t\u00eb b\u00ebnte gjith\u00e7ka q\u00eb t\u00eb jet\u00eb pasardh\u00ebs i Titos pas vdekjes s\u00eb k\u00ebtij t\u00eb fundit. Ai ishte kund\u00ebr titoizmit, kund\u00ebr reformave ekonomike dhe ideologjike q\u00eb filluan nga mesi i viteve \u201960. K\u00ebto zhvillime Rankoviqi nuk i pranonte.<\/p>\n

Thuhet se u largua nga pushteti p\u00ebr shkak t\u00eb rolit t\u00eb tij prij\u00ebs n\u00eb represionin kund\u00ebr shqiptar\u00ebve t\u00eb Kosov\u00ebs.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Po. Por, nuk mendoj se Kosova ishte arsyeja kryesore. Natyrisht represioni i sh\u00ebrbimit sekret jugosllav n\u00eb Kosov\u00eb pas vitit 1945 ishte \u00e7njer\u00ebzor. Tek pas r\u00ebnies s\u00eb Rankoviqit kjo politik\u00eb u korrigjua.<\/p>\n

Ju that\u00eb se Tito ishte agnostik. Nj\u00ebkoh\u00ebsisht ai ishte i vetmi lider nga kampi komunist q\u00eb kishte marr\u00ebdh\u00ebnie t\u00eb mira me Vatikanin. Si e shpjegoni k\u00ebt\u00eb?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: \u00cbsht\u00eb interesant t\u00eb thuhet se ai kishte nj\u00eb raport miq\u00ebsor me Pap\u00ebn Palin e VI. Ati i Shenjt\u00eb i mb\u00ebshteste p\u00ebrpjekjet e Titos p\u00ebr paqe mes izraelit\u00ebve dhe arab\u00ebve. Tito p\u00ebrpiloi nj\u00eb plan, i cili, sipas mendimit tim, po t\u00eb ishte zbatuar do t\u00eb kishte zgjidhur k\u00ebt\u00eb konflikt. Tito propozoi q\u00eb t\u00eb angazhohen fuqit\u00eb e m\u00ebdha dhe t\u00eb garantojn\u00eb kufirin mes Izraelit dhe palestinez\u00ebve. Q\u00eb nga p\u00ebrfundimi i Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore politika jugosllave angazhohej p\u00ebr nj\u00eb federat\u00eb mes izraelit\u00ebve dhe palestinez\u00ebve. Tito nuk ishte parimisht kund\u00ebr izraelit\u00ebve.<\/p>\n

Tito ka sh\u00ebtitur gati mbar\u00eb bot\u00ebn. Vet\u00ebm Izraelin nuk e vizitoi. P\u00ebrse?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Besoj se ai d\u00ebshironte t\u00eb vizitonte Izraelin, por q\u00eb nga vitet \u201950 ai u miq\u00ebsua me arab\u00ebt. Kjo nuk dometh\u00ebn\u00eb se ai ishte kund\u00ebr Izraelit apo hebrenjve. Jugosllav\u00ebt u kan\u00eb ndihmuar mjaft hebrenjve pas Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb. Po ashtu \u00ebsht\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb se shum\u00eb hebrenj kan\u00eb luftuar n\u00eb radh\u00ebt e partizan\u00ebve gjat\u00eb Luft\u00ebs s\u00eb Dyt\u00eb Bot\u00ebrore, p\u00ebr shembull Mosha Pijade. Shumica e mjek\u00ebve partizan\u00eb kan\u00eb qen\u00eb hebrenj. Pijade ishte nj\u00ebri prej baballar\u00ebve intelektual\u00eb t\u00eb Titos.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb nj\u00eb intervist\u00eb p\u00ebr gazet\u00ebn kroate Novi list keni th\u00ebn\u00eb se Jovanka Broz ia ka b\u00ebr\u00eb jet\u00ebn ferr Josip Broz Titos\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: \u2026dhe kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb shum\u00eb e v\u00ebrtet\u00eb. Tito nuk ka pasur fat me grat\u00eb e tij. E para, nj\u00eb grua ruse, e ka braktisur. Kur Tito shkoi n\u00eb Mosk\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 1935, ai e gjeti at\u00eb dhe e pyeti se ku ndodhej djali i tyre i p\u00ebrbashk\u00ebt. Ajo nuk e dinte. Tito ishte i tronditur dhe qau n\u00eb prani t\u00eb bashk\u00ebpun\u00ebtor\u00ebve t\u00eb tij. Pas ndarjes nga rusja ai u martua me gjermanen Lucija Bauer. Ajo u akuzua nga NVKD-ja si spiune e Gestapos dhe u ekzekutua. Pastaj u njoftua me Herta Haas, nj\u00eb vajz\u00eb shum\u00eb e bukur, e lindur n\u00eb Maribor, at\u00ebbot\u00eb pjes\u00eb e Perandoris\u00eb Austro-Hungareze. Mendoj se po t\u00eb kishte q\u00ebndruar Tito bashk\u00eb me t\u00eb, historia e Jugosllavis\u00eb do t\u00eb kishte ecur ndryshe.<\/p>\n

P\u00ebrse?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Sepse ajo ishte e men\u00e7ur, kishte mendim politik, andaj do t\u00eb kishte edhe ndikim mbi Titon. Tito e tradhtoi Herta Haasin q\u00eb n\u00eb vitin 1941, kur ajo priste nj\u00eb f\u00ebmij\u00eb prej tij. Ai u lidh me nj\u00eb serbe, edhe ajo ishte shum\u00eb e bukur, por ishte e \u00e7mendur, neurotike, histerike. Quhej Zdenka Paunoviq. Ajo punoi si sekretare e tij deri n\u00eb vitin 1945. Askush s\u2019e duronte, p\u00ebrve\u00e7 Titos, i cili ishte verb\u00ebrisht i dashuruar n\u00eb t\u00eb. Ajo vdiq nga tuberkulozi. Pastaj Tito pati disa afera, mes tyre me nj\u00eb aktore t\u00eb famshme ruse, Tatjana Okunjevska, e cila p\u00ebr k\u00ebt\u00eb arsye n\u00eb vitin 1948, kur Tito u prish me Stalinin, u internua n\u00eb Siberi. Kujtimet e saj i kam n\u00eb sht\u00ebpi. Natyrisht ajo nuk thot\u00eb hapur se ka pasur nj\u00eb lidhje me Titon. Pastaj Tito u njoftua me Jovanka Budisavleviqin, po ashtu nj\u00eb vajz\u00eb e re dhe shum\u00eb e bukur, e cila ishte plot\u00ebsisht e paarsimuar, nj\u00eb partizane shum\u00eb e dashuruar n\u00eb t\u00eb.<\/p>\n

Lidhja e tyre ishte e fsheht\u00eb mes viteve 1946-1952. Si grua e Titos ajo doli n\u00eb opinion n\u00eb vitin 1952, kur Jugosllavin\u00eb e vizitoi ministri i Jasht\u00ebm britanik Anthony Eden. Por, kur Tito vitin tjet\u00ebr vizitoi Londr\u00ebn, ajo nuk e shoq\u00ebroi, sepse ishte e pasigurt t\u00eb paraqitej n\u00eb k\u00ebto qarqe nd\u00ebrkomb\u00ebtare. Me kalimin e viteve ajo u shnd\u00ebrrua n\u00eb ku\u00e7ed\u00ebr agresive, duke shtuar gjithnj\u00eb e m\u00eb shum\u00eb pesh\u00eb. Kam pasur kontakte t\u00eb mira me sekretarin e Titos, Jozha Vilfan, dhe gruan e tij. Ajo m\u00eb ka treguar se si Jovanka gjat\u00eb nat\u00ebs shkonte n\u00eb kuzhin\u00ebn e K\u00ebshtjell\u00ebs n\u00eb B\u00ebrdo p\u00ebr t\u00eb ngren\u00eb potica, nj\u00eb \u00ebmb\u00eblsir\u00eb tradicionale sllovene. Nj\u00eb gardist i Titos m\u00eb ka treguar se si me rastin e vizit\u00ebs s\u00eb Mbret\u00ebresh\u00ebs s\u00eb Holand\u00ebs, Juliana, n\u00eb fillim t\u00eb viteve \u201970, Jovanka ishte futur n\u00eb sall\u00eb, kishte kritikuar si e \u00e7mendur dukjen e tavolin\u00ebs, e cila n\u00eb t\u00eb v\u00ebrtet\u00eb ishte me en\u00eb t\u00eb shtrenjta dhe porcelan, pastaj kishte kapur mbules\u00ebn e tavolin\u00ebs dhe kishte hedhur gjith\u00e7ka n\u00eb tok\u00eb. Ky gardist, ky djal\u00eb i ri, kishte marr\u00eb guximin dhe kishte protestuar: \u00abKjo \u00ebsht\u00eb pron\u00eb edhe e imja. Si mund t\u2019ia lejoni vetes ta b\u00ebni k\u00ebt\u00eb?\u00bb Sipas mendimit tim ajo ishte neurotike, p\u00ebr t\u00eb mos th\u00ebn\u00eb e \u00e7mendur.<\/p>\n

A kishte Jovanka Broz ambicie p\u00ebr pushtet?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Po. Ajo d\u00ebshironte t\u00eb luante nj\u00eb rol pas vdekjes s\u00eb Titos. Nuk duhet harruar se ajo ishte 50-vje\u00e7are, nd\u00ebrsa Tito gati 90-vje\u00e7ar. K\u00ebtu ekzistonte edhe problemi i jet\u00ebs s\u00eb saj seksuale. Tito me nj\u00eb rast kishte th\u00ebn\u00eb se ambiciet e saj edhe mund t\u00eb pranohen, por ajo nuk \u00ebsht\u00eb e aft\u00eb. Kjo \u00ebsht\u00eb ana pozitive e Titos: ai nuk ishte nepotist. Djemt\u00eb e tij, p\u00ebr shembull, ai i ka injoruar, nuk ju ka ndihmuar t\u00eb z\u00ebn\u00eb pozita, nj\u00ebjt\u00eb veproi edhe me gruan e tij.<\/p>\n

N\u00eb vitet e fundit para vdekjes s\u00eb Titos, Jovanka Broz nuk u pa m\u00eb duke shoq\u00ebruar liderin jugosllav. Cila ishte arsyeja e ndarjes?<\/em><\/p>\n

Pirjevec: Ai kishte frik\u00eb prej saj. Tito me gjas\u00eb kishte frik\u00eb se mund ta helmonte. Ajo ishte n\u00eb t\u00eb pes\u00ebdhjetat, e fuqishme, e madhe, e aft\u00eb t\u00eb b\u00ebj\u00eb \u00e7do gj\u00eb. Jovanka Broz ishte tragjedia e Titos. Ajo ia ka shkat\u00ebrruar s\u00eb paku 20 vitet e fundit t\u00eb jet\u00ebs. E dini si e ka p\u00ebrshkruar shkrimtari serb Dobrica Qosiq k\u00ebt\u00eb raport? Ai i ka par\u00eb aktet kur ka qen\u00eb president i Jugosllavis\u00eb s\u00eb cunguar. Ai ka shkruar: \u00abTito ishte Napoleon, Waterlooja e t\u00eb cilit ishte dhoma e tij e fjetjes\u00bb.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

– dialogplus\u00a0– EKSKLUZIVE \u2013 Intervist\u00eb me historianin slloven Jozhe Pirjevec, autor i biografis\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb plot\u00eb p\u00ebr liderin komunist jugosllav Josip Broz Tito. Enver ROBELLI, Trieste, 08.09.2016 Ndon\u00ebse 76-vje\u00e7ar Jozhe Pirjevec \u00ebsht\u00eb nj\u00eb burr\u00eb sh\u00ebndetplot\u00eb, mendjekthjell\u00ebt, plot humor. Jeton n\u00eb Trieste, aty ku u lind si pjes\u00ebtar i pakic\u00ebs sllovene, n\u00eb nj\u00eb sht\u00ebpi t\u00eb vjet\u00ebr […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":16859,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2,4,5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15108","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-artikuj","category-histori","category-intervista"],"yoast_head":"\nHistoriani slloven Jozhe Pirjevec: \u00abTito d\u00ebshironte q\u00eb Kosova t\u00eb b\u00ebhet Republik\u00eb\u00bb - FJALA e LIR\u00cb<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/jehonashqiptare.al\/fjala\/historiani-slloven-jozhe-pirjevec-tito-deshironte-qe-kosova-te-behet-republike\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Historiani slloven Jozhe Pirjevec: \u00abTito d\u00ebshironte q\u00eb Kosova t\u00eb b\u00ebhet Republik\u00eb\u00bb - FJALA e LIR\u00cb\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"– dialogplus\u00a0– EKSKLUZIVE \u2013 Intervist\u00eb me historianin slloven Jozhe Pirjevec, autor i biografis\u00eb m\u00eb t\u00eb plot\u00eb p\u00ebr liderin komunist jugosllav Josip Broz Tito. 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